KTM RC8R ADV projekt. 1190 or 1290?

    Hi, just recently found this site. And what a load of nice info.


    History:


    Years ago I got an KTM 950 Adv S. Toured around a bit and loved the bike. Time came for something else and i lusted for more power. I thought a lot of a new bike, but would like to keep the 950. Then the ill thought came. What if i could get the RC8R powerplant into my frame. Well at last i succeded but a German either cheated me or he didn´t know. He sold me an RC8R which i fuond out that only were an RC8. Balls.


    Now:


    So now i actually have fitted the RC8 in my frame i would like to complete the build with the correct engine. That would be an RC8R 2012. One thing i found out running the RC8 in was that the gearing wasn´t for touring around. A bit like KTM SXF. Very long 1st and the rest is tight. Good for racing not for touring. I need the EXC gearing(wide ratio). Since the new KTM 1190 Adv is build upon the RC8 platform i will try to mount this gearbox in the 2012 RC8R i´m looking for. Per microfiche study i can see it almost use the same parts. So i´m sure it will Work, no matter what i´ll give a shot anyway.


    Then came the SD 1290. Which just burst of torque. Do any of you German masterminds think of any way to make the RC8R 12 1290? or should i just go the 1190. I will be splitting the case anyway as i´m about to fit another gearbox, while i´m in there i could give it a shot at more ccm?


    As the bike looks now.



    ps: The Wheel setup is for sale. Look at the sales section.


    So to sum it up:


    I want a


    2012 KTM 1190 RC8R engine(wiring)


    +


    more CCM if possible


    +


    KTM 1190 Adv Gearbox


    voila = Touring max power.

    Hi ,


    is a cool modification you made there! :Daumen hoch: :grins: I have noticed in the UK forum before. :ja:


    I think one of the 2012 RC8R should have sufficient power , if you do not unnecessarily restrict to intake ( airbox ) or exhaust (KAT) .
    A conviguration to more ccm is very complex and difficult throughout. Then better to wait for a 1290s motor ... :ja:


    A 2011-2013 RC8R engine you can not combine with wiring harness, ECU, Dash from RC8 or RC8R 2008-2010! Dual ignition, oil pressure switch, especially gear sensor and sensor signals are different! :ja: The Dash communicates via CAN with the ECU ... and the CAN protocol differs from the 2011-2013 ECU obviously on the 2008 -2010 ECU! :rolleyes: So 2011-2013 - Dash will not work with 2008-2010 ECU ( CAN bus error ). :motzki: Than the gear sensor works with other System! 2008-2010 digital ... switched to ground or non-ground and sensor from 2011-2013 work with resistance values. The Sensors you can't change between 2008-2010 and 2011-2013. They will not fit! :nein: Without gear sensor the ECUs 2011-2013 will not work or only work useless. :nein:


    So it is better and easier to replace everything with parts from 2011 to 2013 :ja: (I currently upgrade my 2009 RC8R with a tuned 2011 engine :teuflisch: ).


    Why should the translation of the RC8R be unsuitable for your purposes? :denk: The RC8/R original total is translated to almost 300 km/h at max RPM . So you can translate easy with a smaller chain sprocket and additionally larger sprocket (wheel) .
    KTM uses different manufacturers for gear ... the exchange for 1190 ADV gear you need to pay attention to identical manufacturer! This is important! :ja:


    I hope you understand ... my english is not very good. :grins:


    Regards Stefan



    The same in german (das gleiche in deutsch) ... :grins:


    ist ein cooler Umbau den du da gemacht hast! Den habe ich bereits im UK-Forum bemerkt.
    Ich denke, eine 2012er RC8R dürfte ausreichend Leistung besitzen, wenn du den nicht unnötig im Ansaugsystem (Airbox) oder Auspuff (KAT) drosselst.
    Umrüstung auf mehr ccm ist sehr aufwändig und schwierig im allgemeinen. Da wäre es besser gleich auf einen 1290er Motor zu warten …
    Einen 2012er RC8R Motor kannst du aber nicht mit Kabelbaum, ECU oder Dash einer RC8 verbauen! Doppelzündung, Öldruckschalter und vor allem Gangsensor und Sensorsignale sind anders! Das Dash kommuniziert per CAN mit der ECU ... und das CAN-Protokoll der 2011-2013 ECU weicht offensichtlich von der 2008 -2010 ECU ab! So wird ein 2011-2013 Dash nicht mit 2008-2010 ECU arbeiten (Fehlermeldung CAN-Bus). Der Gangsensor arbeitet mit einem anderem System. 2008-2010 ist digital ... schaltet mit Masse oder nicht Masse, und Gangsensoren ab 2011 arbeiten mit Widerstandswerten. Ohne Gangsensor will die ECUs 2011-2013 nicht oder nur unbrauchbar arbeiten.
    Es ist also besser, alles mit Teilen von 2011-2013 auszutauschen (ich rüste gerade meine 2009er RC8R mit einem getunten 2011er Motor um).
    Warum sollte die Übersetzung der RC8R untauglich für deine Zwecke sein? Die RC8/R ist original auf knapp 300 km/h bei max RPM übersetzt. So kannst du die Gesamtübersetzung mit kleinerem Ritzel und zusätzlich größerem Kettenrad recht einfach ändern.
    KTM verwendet unterschiedliche Hersteller beim Getriebe ... beim Austausch gegen 1190 ADV Getriebe musst du daher auf den identischen Hersteller achten! Das ist wichtig!

    @ RC8-Medicus

    Es steht jedem frei ... sich seinen Illusionen hinzugeben. Hat ... zumindest temporär betrachtet ... auch seinen Reiz. :prost:

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von GLAUBNIX () aus folgendem Grund: der Text in deutsch ...

    Glaubnix I thank you directly and your English is perfect(we would not have come this far if i have used my lesser german skill). As you have saved me a lot of trouble. I´ve watched around this forum a bit day or two. And your insight and Work ethics are just 100% German. I like.


    Holy cow your answers are full of knowhow and you have truly helped me with answering to the fullest. I only use the UK forum when i´m really out of options because the forum lacks a bit in the serious side. Answers are not always helpful.


    I like the modification to but it´s only 60% correct in my head.


    I´ve been told to use the 2012+ engine because they have got the heavyer crank. That would likely make it a better touringmachine. As i will be "lugging" in the lower revs(3500-4800 rpm). And of course the inreased HP/NM.


    The increase in ccm´s was only a thought if i could interchange some parts from the SD 1.3 I´ll pass on that so far.


    A 2011-2013 RC8R engine you can not combine with wiring harness, ECU, Dash from RC8 or RC8R 2008-2010! Dual ignition, oil pressure switch, especially gear sensor and sensor signals are different! :ja: The Dash communicates via CAN with the ECU ... and the CAN protocol differs from the 2011-2013 ECU obviously on the 2008 -2010 ECU! :rolleyes: So 2011-2013 - Dash will not work with 2008-2010 ECU ( CAN bus error ). :motzki: Than the gear sensor works with other System! 2008-2010 digital ... switched to ground or non-ground and sensor from 2011-2013 work with resistance values. The Sensors you can't change between 2008-2010 and 2011-2013. They will not fit! :nein: Without gear sensor the ECUs 2011-2013 will not work or only work useless. :nein:


    So it is better and easier to replace everything with parts from 2011 to 2013 :ja: (I currently upgrade my 2009 RC8R with a tuned 2011 engine :teuflisch: ).


    Hmmm maybe i got the 2012 difference wrong. Would/could you confirm that the 2011+ is the one with the heavyer crank. That will give me a "year" more to look at while gathering parts or just an complete bike.


    Why should the translation of the RC8R be unsuitable for your purposes? :denk: The RC8/R original total is translated to almost 300 km/h at max RPM . So you can translate easy with a smaller chain sprocket and additionally larger sprocket (wheel) .


    Currently i´m running 17 front just to have some touring abilities while riding Autobahn. And i still think its to short in the gearing. Though i can´t really go much higher in gearing as the 1st is SUPER long. Not rideable in the town. To much clutch-feathering. That is why i´m thinking of the swap from the 1190 Adv. It´s a gamble, but i´m in no hurry as i´ve got a winterbike.



    KTM uses different manufacturers for gear ... the exchange for 1190 ADV gear you need to pay attention to identical manufacturer! This is important! :ja:


    I hope you understand ... my english is not very good. :grins:
    Your English are way better than my German.



    Where would i go searching for a 2011+RC8R machine crashed or in rideable condition? In Germany or europe.



    Regards Stefan


    Thank Again Stefan

    Dual ignition and the heavy crank will used with model 2011 and later. :ja: So you can buy as well a 2011 RC8R engine and 2011 equipment for yor project.
    With standard configuration a 2011 RC8R is noticeably better below 3500/4000 rpm. Less problems with the engine behavior. :ja: But with previous models, you can significantly improve the engine behavior as well. :zwinker: You have to just use a different mapping! The mapping you can change with TuneECU. :Daumen hoch: Along with a little shorter translation, you have a much better drive at very slow speeds. :ja:


    The offer chrashed RC8R is very low ... very rare. Therefore, the prices are just high. :rolleyes: I will send you a PN ...



    --------------------------


    Die schwerere Kurbelwelle und die Doppelzündung sind ab 2011 Serie. Du kannst also ebenso einen 2011er Motor und 2011er Equipment kaufen.


    Serienmäßig ist eine 2011 RC8R spürbar besser unterhalb 3500/4000 U/min und hat dort weniger Probleme mit dem Motorverhalten. Aber auch mit den vorherigen Modellen kannst du das Motorverhalten deutlich verbessern. Du musst dazu nur ein anderes Mapping verwenden! Das Mapping kannst du mit TuneECU jederzeit selbst wechseln. Zusammen mit etwas kürzerer Übersetzung, hast du somit ein deutlich besseres fahren bei sehr langsamen Geschwindigkeiten.


    Das Angebot verunfallter RC8R ist sehr gering ... und sehr selten. Entsprechend hoch ist dann auch der Preis.

    @ RC8-Medicus

    Es steht jedem frei ... sich seinen Illusionen hinzugeben. Hat ... zumindest temporär betrachtet ... auch seinen Reiz. :prost:

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von GLAUBNIX ()

    Thanks for explaining the differences. 2011 nd up it is.


    I´m well aware that i can change the mapping but the heavyer crank is the trick i think.


    Dual ignition and the heavy crank will used with model 2011 and later. :ja: So you can buy as well a 2011 RC8R engine and 2011 equipment for yor project.
    With standard configuration a 2011 RC8R is noticeably better below 3500/4000 rpm. Less problems with the engine behavior. :ja: But with previous models, you can significantly improve the engine behavior as well. :zwinker: You have to just use a different mapping! The mapping you can change with TuneECU. :Daumen hoch: Along with a little shorter translation, you have a much better drive at very slow speeds. :ja:


    The offer chrashed RC8R is very low ... very rare. Therefore, the prices are just high. :rolleyes: I will send you a PN ...





    On another note when you get time for it please look into these links and look at the small differences.


    KTM RC8R 2011 Main Trans 1


    http://ktmshop.se/index.php?ac…06&c=C116933330#partslist


    KTM 1190 Adv 2013 Main Trans 1


    http://ktmshop.se/index.php?ac…26&c=C136033330#partslist


    KTM RC8R 2011 Counter trans II


    http://ktmshop.se/index.php?ac…06&c=C116933360#partslist


    KTM 1190 Adv 2013 Counter trans II


    http://ktmshop.se/index.php?ac…26&c=C136033360#partslist



    Again thanks for the insight and time while write in 2 languages.


    Best regards


    Mikael


    Hello Mikael,


    I quote Andi's (Baugrube Racing) Information: :Daumen hoch:
    Actually there is nothing against, the ADV-gear should fit one on one in the 612er/ 691/ 693 engine. For safety, I would suggest he should establish a complete ADV gear. The likelihood to change only the wheels is quite low, since the drive shafts are of different manufacturers and so have different sets of teeth. If you are using 693er engine, the frame would be too weld ... the tube strut rear from left, since the second spark plug interfere. This change you have to take into account as well! :zwinker:


    Übersetzt:


    Ich zitiere Andi's (Baugrube Racing) Auskunft: :Daumen hoch:
    Eigentlich spricht nichts dagegen. Das ADV-Getriebe sollte eins zu eins in den 612er/ 691/ 693 Motor passen. Zur Sicherheit würde ich aber vorschlagen ein komplettes ADV Getriebe zu verwenden. Die Wahrscheinlichkeit nur die Räder zu tauschen ist ziemlich gering, da die Getriebewellen von verschiedenen Herstellern sind und so auch unterschiedliche Verzahnungen aufweisen.
    Wenn du den 693er Motor verwendest, wäre allerdings der Rahmen zu schweißen ... die Rohrstrebe hinten von links, da hier die zweite Zündkerze stört. Diese Änderung musst du ebenso berücksichtigen! :zwinker:

    @ RC8-Medicus

    Es steht jedem frei ... sich seinen Illusionen hinzugeben. Hat ... zumindest temporär betrachtet ... auch seinen Reiz. :prost:

    Zitat

    So now i actually have fitted the RC8 in my frame i would like to complete the build with the correct engine. That would be an RC8R 2012. One thing i found out running the RC8 in was that the gearing wasn´t for touring around. A bit like KTM SXF. Very long 1st and the rest is tight. Good for racing not for touring.

    Ich habe auch einige Änderungen vorgenommen. 16 \ 41, 16 \ 39, 17 \ 41.



    Ich kann nicht scheinen, den Start zu erhalten, den ich im 1. benötige und beim Schlagen der Landstraßen mitzuhalten.



    Kann ich mit dem 6. Gang etwas anfangen?



    Fahrrad ist 2008 rc8





    I also have done some changes. 16\41, 16\39, 17\41.


    I cant seem to get the launch i need in 1st and keep up while hitting the highways.


    Is there something i can do with 6th gear?


    Bike is 2008 rc8