Big Bang

  • Hi friends of KTM -single cylinder- motorcycles. In this short report/ story I will tell you the experience I made with my Duke engine upgrade. The Duke 690 R is from 2011.


    Already in the winter of 2012/2013 I got a 796 ccm Big Bore Kit of Josef Frauenschuh. The result was 81 HP and 91 NM torque at the engine - not at the rear wheel.
    In below diagram you can see the different between almost stock (Akra under floor exhaust and Akra mapping and the modified JF engine. Even with Akra the Duke had less than the promised 70 HP.

    Dia 11.pdf


    Before/ after first upgrade:
    Compare to almost stock we have 24% more NM torque and 21% more HP.


    Maintenance:
    In the summer 2013 and 2014 I drove a little bit more than 20.000 Km. During that period I only changed oil and I checked valve clearance once- but changing shims was not needed. The spark plug I changed after 10.000 KM. This was the all maintenance I did within the two year period.

    Gas- and oil consumption:Oil consumption was below 150ml for 1000 km. When oil consumption is that low it is better to change oil more often, so the recommended interval for changing oil, was every 2500 km. The Gas consumption was between 4,8l and 6,5l on 100km. The average consumption was 5,5l, this is not much, compare to stock engine and to some light modified engines.


    Injection and air box:
    Throttle response of this engine is sensitive, so I put in the RC8 accelerator throttle kit for a smother gas response. The air box got the second air filter –on top of the air box - and some extra holes at the back side. Sound of the air box is good and not too loud, but this is just subjective. I don’t like the sound of the open KN replacement filter, they are too noisy. In general the engine is quieter than a stock engine.


    Fun Factor:
    To ride an 82 HP motor bike – with only 150 kg - is really funny. Power is always available; accelerating is on a different level than before. Acceleration together with Japanese big bikes is actually my favourite. Gas-wheelie at the third and forth gear is quite easy to do, even in fifths gear it was possible- depending on weather conditions (gear ratio was 15:40). We are always talking high BHP, but higher torque is more important. So far so good.


    Why again an engine upgrade?
    In general, 81 HP is more than needed, but it is always nice to have a little bit more. You all know about this phenomenon.
    And due to the high inflation and no - or negative - interest on bank accounts, my money is melting like ice in the sun. So I decided again to have an “investment” in my Duke 3 engine. 


    What did JF changed for the second upgrade?


    • cylinder and piston were still very good, no wear after 20.000km. We changed only the piston and we put it DLC coated piston rings. The old piston will be used for a test engine.
    • forged connection rod was already installed in 2012, no measurable and visible wear within the first 20.000 km, so it was installed again
    • ***fully new casted and machined cylinder head, designed by JF and some experts***. The cylinder head was machined for 3 hours in a 5 axis milling machine. Inlet and outlet are oval now.
    • bigger intake and exhaust valves (they are huge)
    • all valves are made from titanium (US brand), special softer springs were mounted
    • camshaft with huge cams was already installed in 2012/2013, no changes here
    • ***new connection between throttle body and cylinder, made from oil resistant plastic *** the challenge was the to have a smooth change over from round to oval
    • original throttle body was already optimised (bigger diameter) during the first session in 2012/2013,
    • modified first part of the KTM-cup exhaust system. The first part is now oval and not round anymore
    • stronger gear shaft, stronger gear wheels and stronger bearings for the gearbox, this is needed, due to high NM torque now
    • better oil distribution in the gearbox
    • oil cooler, was already installed 2012/2013
    • and much much more details has been changed, but this is secret and the advantage of JF


    Testing and experience:
    Before a new concept is launched (street or race track), all parts have been tested to their limits on his Dyno (Ammerschläger P4) and on the race track. The test engine has been tested up to + 9.500 rpm or even higher. After testing the new setup test engine were dismantled to see the wear out on all moving parts. Only when everything is perfect a new setup is ready for customers.


    Dia 22.pdf



    Before/after second upgrade:


    So, now we’re talking about 90,5 HP and 98,0 NM torque at the engine. (In the morning with some more oxygen in the air the result was 92,0 HP.) Compare to almost stock we have now 34% more HP and 34% more NM torque. This performance is impressive, and for me this is quite a Big Bang for an one cylinder engine. I checked the www several times, but could not find a one cylinder suction engine how is close to this performance. But maybe I am wrong...


    My set up is the street version, the race track version of JF has
    • a higher compression ratio,
    • higher RPM,
    • more pre-ignition, and some other details.


    Dia 33.pdf


    As you can see, 100 HP and 100 NM for a one cylinder engine is not a dream anymore.


    Conclusion:
    This second update of my engine was really not needed, but – after only some km I can say, and this you can believe me – is worth every dam cent. After the break in period I will bring the Duke to my local KTM dealer for another DYNO run, to compare the diagrams. So you will get an update in some weeks.


    Best Regards Satellit


    PS: I did this short report in English language, because I know a lot of KTM fans abroad (The Netherlands, Scandinavia etc.) how are interested in this topic. It would be nice for all KTM fans how don’t speak or understand German, to keep this thread in English language. Thank you.


    PSII: If you want to know details, dimensions or costs/price, you have to ask JF yourself.



    P1020303.jpg
    P1020306.jpg
    ktmforum.eu/attachment/144305/

  • Hi Frank,
    I thought you had sold your Duke as I looked at your sales threads. :zwinker:
    :denk: Why are you selling the Foodpegs?


    Please tell me, where/how are you now using these enormous HP/Nm?
    Are you now more often on the racetrack?


    Has this update cost again the same as your first JF big bang or how much % of the first? :zwinker:


    Hope to see you again soon.


    CU Kay

  • Thats awesome work - Das ist wahnsinns Arbeit! (weiss nicht welche Sprache angewendendet werden muss :-d)


    Josef Frauenschuh ( :applaus: ) . hat er eine Seite? Has Josef a link? Thats looking awesome.

  • Quite impressing - must be fun to ride :grins:


    Are you from Germany? Will you make any attempt to get this bike street legal? I guess that's more or less impossible...


    And due to the high inflation and no - or negative - interest on bank accounts, my money is melting like ice in the sun. So I decided again to have an “investment” in my Duke 3 engine. ?


    Nice motivation for this project... sad but true!

    1997 LC4 400 EGS
    2009 LC4 690 Enduro

  • Hallo Frank :winke:


    :der Hammer: was du dir da hast bauen lassen :knie nieder::respekt:


    Jetzt musst du nur noch lernen lange zu wheelen :wheelie: ............ :zwinker:


    Ich wünsche Dir viel Spaß mit deinem Feuerstuhl und vor allem, das dieser auch laaaaange hält :prost:


    Bis zum nächsten Treffen,



    LG
    Christian

    LG


    :Kürbis: Christian



  • "I checked the www several times, but could not find a one cylinder suction engine how is close to this performance. But maybe I am wrong..."




    yes you'r wrong :zwinker:


    but anyway , you have a great bike :Daumen hoch:


  • HI fd63,


    please show us the link were we can see, what you are talking about.


    We all are intrested to see comparable or even higher Performance.


    TX Frank

  • I see that everybody is forgetting about all my job !!!!lol


    FD-RACING it's me and i got 90 ps from an 690 ( 654 cc) already in 2009


    there's plenty o f infos everywhere on me and my engines ;-)


    i was the first who use twin injectors on this engine and variable length induction


    the last one ( in 2012 ) has 88 ps at wheel , witch is about 98 ps at crank , and it was an 693 cc , 80 mm stroke and 105 RC8R piston .


    my new "build" is an 690 with ducati 1098 r head and piston and my new injection ( variable venturi )


    for those who speaks french you will get pics and infos at 17pouces.net , and maybe here too !!

  • ça fait 7 ans que je suis sur ce site , cherche un peut plus , tu va trouver ;-)


    cela dit chacun connait mon travail et je n'est plus rien à prouver depuis longtemps !!!


    mais je remarque que l'on est vite oublié !!!!

  • Hi,


    So, finally I could finalize the break in period (1000) km.
    During that time I went only to 6500 -7000 RPM for some seconds. Due to the high torque I can easily cruse between 4000 and 6000 RPM.


    I have to change the 15 sprocket back to the original (16) once, because full acceleration in the first 3 gears is not possible anymore. Front wheel is always in the “air” :wheelie:  Torque is really massive.


    Some facts;
    • almost no oil consumption on the first 1000 km
    • oil is still red (Fuchs Oil)
    • gas consumption was between 4,7 and 5,3 l on 100 km


    Throttle response on position 2 (Street) is very smooth. It was already better than stock bike, but now it even better - almost no shacking anymore. On position 3 (Race) the bike it is very aggressive, 3 in now only for race track.


    Sound level of the exhausts “even with big DB eater” is still OK. There is almost no noise from the air box, because only some added holes came in, plus the second air filter on top of the air box. The engine himself makes less noise than a stock engine.


    Yes, I can say it is more combatable than before, it does not feel as an one cylinder bike anymore. End of next week I will be in the Dolomite Alps (Italy) again. After this trip I can tell more about the performance of the Duke.


    Regards Frank



    PS: I hope we can get more Infos of fd63´s project.

  • Desmo? :O Really looking forward to hear more about that project! Very interesting. I hope you'll share some pictures with us when you're done ;)

  • Hallo Liebe KTM Gemeinde,


    nach gut 8000 gefahren KM in 2015 war eigentlich nur ein kleiner Service fällig. Da JF sich ein genaues Bild über den Verschleiß unter anderem mit dem neuen „dicken" Zylinderkopf machen wollte, wurde der Motor dennoch zerlegt.


    Alle beweglichen Bauteile waren im tadellosen Zustand und wurden wieder eingebaut. Lediglich die Zahnräder für den dritten und vierten Gang wurden gegen stärkere getauscht. Aufgrund des hohen Drehmomentes kann es bei den originalen Zahnrädern zu Defekten kommen. Mit den stärkeren Zahnrädern soll dies ausgeschlossen sein.


    Generell hat der Motor fast kein Öl verbraucht. Wir reden von maximal 0,3 l auf den ersten 3000 KM. Zwischen 3000 und 8000 km war es noch weniger. Beim ersten Ölwechsel war das Fuchsöl immer noch rötlich. Ich denke, dass dies ist dem beschichteten Kolbenring zu verdanken ist. Die Benzinverbräuche lagen im Mittel immer bei ca. 5l. Im besten Fall bei 4,5l im schlechtesten Fall 6,5 l auf 100 KM.


    Der Motor wurde noch etwas angepasst. Die Drehzahl wurde um 300 auf nun max. 8700 Umdrehungen erhöht. Das Diagramm zeigt aber optisch weniger an. Die Verdichtung ist nun um 1/10 höher als vorher. Der Krümmer ist nun bis zum Vorschaldämpfer um einiges dicker geworden. Bilder folgen.


    Die rote Kurve ist vom letzten Jahr.
    Die blaue Kurve ist mit den oben beschriebenen Anpassungen.
    Die grüne Kurve ist mit den oben beschriebenen Anpassungen und einem optimierten Auspuff der RC8. Dies war nur als Test, um die max. Leistung des Motors zu ermitteln. Mit dem Auspuff haben wir 97 PS. Die letzen 2-3 PS bis zu den 100PS ist nur eine Frage der Zeit und des Geldbeutels.


    Ich vergleiche nun nur die rote und blaue Drehmomentkurve. Im unteren Bereich ist das Drehmoment der blauen Kurve deutlich höher – bis ca. 4200 Umdrehungen. Danach ist die rote (alte) Kurve bis 6500 Umdrehungen besser. Ob das in der Mitte geringere Drehmoment deutlich merkbar ist wird sich erst noch rausstellen. Die blaue Kurve ist aber im Ganzen wohl harmonischer als die rote. Grund für den veränderten DM-Verlauf ist der nun wirklich dicke Krümmer.


    Duke 796 ccm.jpg



    Für die PS Kurve gilt das gleiche, aber bei 6600 bis 8700 Umdrehungen geht geht die Kurve steiler nach oben - ohne abzuknicken. Baugleiche Motoren von JF wurden im Renneinsatz bis weit über 9000 Touren gefahren. Soll heißen wir sind mit 8700 Umdrehungen immer noch in einem Bereich mit Reserven. Der geänderte Cup-Auspuff ist wohl nun an seinem Limit angekommen. Um wirklich über die 100 PS zu kommen muss langfristig wohl über eine andere Auspuffanlage nachgedacht werden.


    Die Endgeschwindigkeit ist bei der blauen und grünen Messung höher, da wieder das 16ér Ritzel verbaut wurde. Mit dem 15ér Ritzel hing das Vorderrad zu oft in der Luft.


    Sobald ich einige KM gefahren bin, werde ich hier wieder berichten.


    Gruß Satellit


    Englisch translation in # 40

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Satellit ()

  • sound von der cup anlage mit "normalen"796 ccm könnt ich liefern;)
    aber nur mit db eater, da geht sie nämlich besser....